optimus Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Hi everyone, I just had a question about biochemistry courses. I noticed that none of the local community colleges or two-year institutions don't offer biochem courses so I was wondering if biochem is generally an upper division course. Also, if this really is the case then where can I find a course in biochemistry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkles9708 Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 It is generally an upper division course, UNE offers an online Medical Biochemistry course which I took last year. The only thing that stinks is your final is the only grade in the course, but as long as you follow what he tells you and stay on track, its not bad at all. Takes alot of work especially since it is online and its a little pricey, but worth it. He is very good at following up with you on any questions you may have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted October 24, 2012 Moderator Share Posted October 24, 2012 Keep in mind many fine pa programs do not require biochem(or o-chem). there is zero biochem/ o-chem on pance/panre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedicinePower Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Taking orgo chem (which I am a tutor for at the local CC) will definitely increase your understanding of how things in the body work. You'll also be able to read and understand medication inserts. Orgo chem is the hardest science class you will ever take. Biochem is a ton of memorization. If you do a semester of each one then you'll come away feeling very confident in your knowledge of advanced biology & chemistry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timon Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 If you're in So. Cali I recommend SCUHS in Whittier. Great class and if Dr. Khalid Is teaching the course you'll learn a lot of what's happening today and he really gears the class towards drug design and cancer research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted October 24, 2012 Moderator Share Posted October 24, 2012 You'll also be able to read and understand medication inserts. you can do this quite well without ever taking ochem/biochem. I have the highest grade ever in the history of my program in pharm(996/1000 points) and tutored pharm when I was a second yr student to the first yrs and have never taken either. I will say it again. there is zero ochem or biochem required to do well in pa school. there is zero ochem/biochem on pance/panre. some newer programs require these as a weed out mechanism but you won't actually use them in the program at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon Bars Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 you can do this quite well without ever taking ochem/biochem. I have the highest grade ever in the history of my program in pharm(996/1000 points) and tutored pharm when I was a second yr student to the first yrs and have never taken either.I will say it again. there is zero ochem or biochem required to do well in pa school. there is zero ochem/biochem on pance/panre. some newer programs require these as a weed out mechanism but you won't actually use them in the program at all. Good. Because I hate chemistry and I suck at it. If we were working with anything dangerous in ochem lab I probably would have blown up the place by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemegroup Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 you can do this quite well without ever taking ochem/biochem. I have the highest grade ever in the history of my program in pharm(996/1000 points) and tutored pharm when I was a second yr student to the first yrs and have never taken either.I will say it again. there is zero ochem or biochem required to do well in pa school. there is zero ochem/biochem on pance/panre. some newer programs require these as a weed out mechanism but you won't actually use them in the program at all. well, good for you. but nonetheless, there IS biochem in pharm and a lot of it. you might not have needed it, but others might still benefit from it ... there's a reason why some PA schools allow it in place of OChem 2. personally, i used my biochem skills in PA school quite a bit ... usually in knowing more about certain underlying mechanisms than my classmates. but hey, if you want to skip through the Krebs cycle and the electron transport chain go for it. that just wasn't what i wanted out of my education before PA school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted October 24, 2012 Moderator Share Posted October 24, 2012 how often you using the krebs cycle at work these days? you need to know biochem/ochem for pharm if you want to design new drugs, not prescribe them.... when I was at drexel/hahnemann they required neither ochem nor biochem. will check but I think they still don't. nope, they don't. the genetics requirement is new since I was there though, although I have had that course. honestly I think of that as part of the pa school vs med school decision tree: want to take adv. chem?/like research?............................... also prior medical experience? / ...... / ................................................................................................/ ....................... / no yes ...........................................................................................yes....................... no /...... / ............................................................................................./ ............................ / pa md ......................................................................................... pa.......................... md Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted October 24, 2012 Moderator Share Posted October 24, 2012 if you want to skip through the Krebs cycle and the electron transport chain go for it. nothing would make me happier. I learned them several times as an undergrad and forgot them within a month each time. that's what happens with material that is not used or relevant. ask any 10 docs 5 yrs out of residency to diagram the krebs cycle for you. my prediction is that exactly zero can still write out all the steps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timon Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 nothing would make me happier. I learned them several times as an undergrad and forgot them within a month each time. that's what happens with material that is not used or relevant. ask any 10 docs 5 yrs out of residency to diagram the krebs cycle for you. my prediction is that exactly zero can still write out all the steps. Thats what my biochem teacher told our class thus he didn't emphasize krebs, glycolysis, etc, urea cycle or lactic acid. He focused it more on amino acids / genetics / mythilation, cell cycle (emphasis on cancer), cytochrome p450 (I think that's what it was, the one in the liver), and drug design. Just basically said everything is either de/phosphorilated and causes a reaction. Although he did go over the other cycles just didn't spend as much time in it.. Just wanted us to know the big picture. I found the class insightful and it's really given me a good perspective in my HCE and putting all my classes together (A&P / G chem / o chem) when I see what drugs are being used and for what. One of our docs in the ER used to be a pharmacist so I get to chat with him about drug design and mechanisms. Hopefully it'll help me when I get into PA school but Im happy I took it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemegroup Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 the list goes on, emed ... alkaline phosphatase comes to mind, for starters, which can be involved in numerous pathophysiologies. the structure of hemoglobin (gee, what DOES that iron actually do?) do you care about keto acids, or just ketoacidosis? does it matter to you what the difference is between gluconeogenesis and glycogenolysis? you talk about precepting med students ... are you able to quiz them and/or converse on these matters or do you just explain to them when and how to administer wide fluids in dehydration or run a code? no disrespect intended, just making my point. my personal philosophy has always been that knowledge is power. telling someone the class is not needed to make it through PA school is for all intents true, you and i both know that. but you cannot tell me or anyone else that there is absolutely no benefit in taking biochem. will it help you in ACLS? no. could it help you in medical intensivism down the line? oh, you betcha. And oh look, for Drexel-Hahnemann: Strongly recommended electives include: • Abnormal psychology • Biochemistry • Critical thinking • Death and dying • Developmental psychology • Embryology • Ethics/ Ethics in Medicine (Health Care) and Methodology • Foreign languages • Introduction to Pharmacology • Logic • Nutrition • Organic Chemistry • Pathophysiology • Advanced Anatomy • Philosophy • Public Speaking/Speech • Research Design • Sociology • Statistics But wth, the basic curriculum of PA school is enough to get you to pass the PANCE ... heaven forbid you learn anything else, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemegroup Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 nothing would make me happier.. Not me ... I wrote my Psych rotation review on the role of mitochondria in bipolar disorder. Send me your email, I'd be happy to send you the paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I'm glad that I took biochem. It has meant more free time and less study time to learn things from scratch in PA school. The goal of medical education(whether PA, physician, or whatever) shouldn't be to scrape by with the bare minimum. Learn everything you can! You may not need to have the kreb's cycle memorized but understanding the concepts behind things like drug mechanisms of action or drug effects on P450 expression(and how that may effect treatment choices when using multiple drugs) is certainly no waste of time. Repetition is the key to really learning this stuff so the more prepared you are before PA school, the easier it will be and the better you'll do/feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balsam88 Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Biochem is usually an upper level course. I took 3 biochem courses. Yes it's a little bit hard to memorize it all, but I must say I had a good understanding of the material and it definitely helps in one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrissy0022 Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Lord have mercy! why are all the threads in this Pre- PA section seem like they are all turning into an argument lately and everyone is yelling at each other! Lets all take a breath walk away from the computer! IT IS ONLY OCHEM AND BIOCHEM is it really worth arguing over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest carolanimal Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I'm glad that I took biochem. It has meant more free time and less study time to learn things from scratch in PA school. The goal of medical education(whether PA, physician, or whatever) shouldn't be to scrape by with the bare minimum. Learn everything you can! You may not need to have the kreb's cycle memorized but understanding the concepts behind things like drug mechanisms of action or drug effects on P450 expression(and how that may effect treatment choices when using multiple drugs) is certainly no waste of time. Repetition is the key to really learning this stuff so the more prepared you are before PA school, the easier it will be and the better you'll do/feel. I think this is my impression too. I'm approaching my biochemistry course like it's part of my education as a healthcare practitioner. I just can't imagine NOT knowing this stuff and practicing medicine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Lord have mercy! why are all the threads in this Pre- PA section seem like they are all turning into an argument lately and everyone is yelling at each other! Lets all take a breath walk away from the computer! IT IS ONLY OCHEM AND BIOCHEM is it really worth arguing over? lol /10chars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrissy0022 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 lol /10chars thank you atleast someone is laughing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedicinePower Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 you can do this quite well without ever taking ochem/biochem. I have the highest grade ever in the history of my program in pharm(996/1000 points) and tutored pharm when I was a second yr student to the first yrs and have never taken either.I will say it again. there is zero ochem or biochem required to do well in pa school. there is zero ochem/biochem on pance/panre. some newer programs require these as a weed out mechanism but you won't actually use them in the program at all. That's probably true. It would go a way in enriching biological understanding but it likely isn't hugely relevant for the boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedicinePower Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I think this is my impression too. I'm approaching my biochemistry course like it's part of my education as a healthcare practitioner. I just can't imagine NOT knowing this stuff and practicing medicine. I tutor at the local community college in organic chem and biochem. My students are all RN students and pre-NP students. There are many "ah-hah!" moments when studying biochem (especially when a semester of orgo chem has already been taken). Those ah-hahs, of course, all relate to the nitty-gritty of human biology and pharmacology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemegroup Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I tutor at the local community college in organic chem and biochem. My students are all RN students and pre-NP students. There are many "ah-hah!" moments when studying biochem (especially when a semester of orgo chem has already been taken). Those ah-hahs, of course, all relate to the nitty-gritty of human biology and pharmacology. the prereq for my upper div physiology was biochem which had an an ochem prereq. that's all I know. and my physiology professor literally failed a third of the class, every quarter. it was the hardest class i've ever taken. and the best. it's the only class i ever re-took as an elective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted October 25, 2012 Moderator Share Posted October 25, 2012 the prereq for my upper div physiology was biochem which had an an ochem prereq. that's all I know. and my physiology professor literally failed a third of the class, every quarter. it was the hardest class i've ever taken. and the best. it's the only class i ever re-took as an elective. Did you take pathobio from Dr. Barenfus(dvm, phd) when you were there? that was hands down the best course I took from the bio dept. I still have the textbook, Boyd's introduction to the study of disease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemegroup Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Did you take pathobio from Dr. Barenfus(dvm, phd) when you were there? that was hands down the best course I took from the bio dept.I still have the textbook, Boyd's introduction to the study of disease. pathobio wasn't there when i was. she was the end all of end alls. she was the one that determined who went into health care and who didn't. linda ogren, we used Vander's. i need to order the new edition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodiggler Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 @EMEDPA What PA program did you attend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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