cardsgirl Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Just trying to gather some insight.... Though I know I have talked to some of you, who else has/is considering med school as a physician assistant? What are your reasons? Benefits? Risks? How does long term financial gain compare to debt load and income loss?? Thanks guys :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primadonna22274 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Read my post history on this...not much time to answer in detail now. M2 in 3-yr track, can finally see the end in sight. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted October 23, 2012 Moderator Share Posted October 23, 2012 reasons aside, the opportunity cost for many is very high. I would be out around a million dollars if I went back when you consider lost income, price of school, etc. would still love to do it ( I would do the 3 yr lecom bridge program) but I don't think it's a realistic option at this point. much better respect, scope of practice, and marketability both in the u.s. and abroad as a doc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardsgirl Posted October 23, 2012 Author Share Posted October 23, 2012 How long would it take you to break even EMEDPA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted October 23, 2012 Moderator Share Posted October 23, 2012 How long would it take you to break even EMEDPA? if I ended up doing full scope rural fp probably 15-20 years as I would make about 50k/yr more than I do right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treejay Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 if I ended up doing full scope rural fp probably 15-20 years as I would make about 50k/yr more than I do right now. and you'd want to give up EM as a PA for FP as a doc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discogenic Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 if I ended up doing full scope rural fp probably 15-20 years as I would make about 50k/yr more than I do right now. I'm sure there's variation, but it appears that emergency physicians average >$300k/yr. http://www.acep.org/content.aspx?id=45806 If a PA is making $250k/yr, returning to med school probably isn't worth it then, financially speaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted October 24, 2012 Moderator Share Posted October 24, 2012 I'm sure there's variation, but it appears that emergency physicians average >$300k/yr. http://www.acep.org/content.aspx?id=45806 If a PA is making $250k/yr, returning to med school probably isn't worth it then, financially speaking. note in my post above that I would be practicing rural fp, not em. would probably cover some er shifts but most of my work would be outpt primary care and inpt hospitalist work. this pays 200k/yr or so in the markets I have looked at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardsgirl Posted October 24, 2012 Author Share Posted October 24, 2012 EMEDPA, I still think you should go for it!! You have so much awesome knowledge and experience, you deserve to live out your dream!! But it seems like you make a comfortable living, so it would be a hard financial sacrifice---but you would still come out ahead financially if you practice long enough. What do you think would change your scenario? Do you think age and family are your main factors? Thanks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted October 24, 2012 Moderator Share Posted October 24, 2012 and you'd want to give up EM as a PA for FP as a doc? yup, as a rural fp doc I could do em, hospitalist work, ob, etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardsgirl Posted October 24, 2012 Author Share Posted October 24, 2012 Also, do you think there are going to be more bridge programs like LECOM in the future?? I am still bummed about their osteopathic residency requirement as I feel that really limits specialty options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted October 24, 2012 Moderator Share Posted October 24, 2012 What do you think would change your scenario? Do you think age and family are your main factors? Thanks!! age has nothing to do with it. I am in my mid 40's but run circles around folks half my age(literally, I ran a 100 mile ultramarathon this year). I am married with kids. my wife is an artist. she doesn't make enough to pay the tax on my current salary. she could not support us if I had no income. I am still looking at some other options that might work for increasing my happiness at work including moving to a more rural community(rural em jobs are better) and/or doing an em residency(em residents get better jobs) and/or teaching and/or overseas work. we'll see how the next few yrs go. gotta finish my global health doctorate first. I am about 1/3 of the way through with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted October 24, 2012 Moderator Share Posted October 24, 2012 Also, do you think there are going to be more bridge programs like LECOM in the future?? I am still bummed about their osteopathic residency requirement as I feel that really limits specialty options. yup, I think there will be more. DO residencies for primary care, em, surg., and ortho don't limit you. if you want something really competitive it might. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardsgirl Posted October 24, 2012 Author Share Posted October 24, 2012 WOW!!! 100 miles! Nice work!! I just ran my 3rd marathon this year, no way could I ever do an ultramarthon and I am about half your age lol. My entire healthcare background is cardiology and that is what I truly love. But super freaking competitive. But I think being a hospitalist would be a great alternative since a heavy cards background would be extremely helpful. I am in the same situation with my husband's income. He is a pastor and makes next to nothing, so we are glad I have been able to bring in a good income. I think with my current student loan debt plus med school it would put me at about 300k with interest. I think I would have a stroke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted October 24, 2012 Moderator Share Posted October 24, 2012 You have to consider the reduced income as a resident as well. Going from 100k/yr + to 45k/yr for 3 yrs is a 150k+ hit there as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted October 24, 2012 Administrator Share Posted October 24, 2012 You have to consider the reduced income as a resident as well. Going from 100k/yr + to 45k/yr for 3 yrs is a 150k+ hit there as well. Not to mention that you're also accruing interest on student loans, and you lack the ability to both pay that interest and feed yourself on a resident's salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted October 24, 2012 Moderator Share Posted October 24, 2012 Yup, easy when you are single and don't have a mortgage, car loans, kids, etc. And can live off of top ramen and beans... Not so easy with adult responsibilities.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted October 24, 2012 Administrator Share Posted October 24, 2012 Going to PA school cost my family $400,000 or so, in terms of lost income and expenses for 2 years of school. I haven't done the math on the $1m for med school, but I suspect that's very close to right. Mind you, I'm also making about 70% of what I did in IT, now that I'm an entry-level PA. Most career firefighters I know are already making at least as much as I do as an entry level PA, for that matter. Medicine? Not in it for the money... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discogenic Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 age has nothing to do with it. I am in my mid 40's but run circles around folks half my age(literally, I ran a 100 mile ultramarathon this year).I am married with kids. my wife is an artist. she doesn't make enough to pay the tax on my current salary. she could not support us if I had no income. I am still looking at some other options that might work for increasing my happiness at work including moving to a more rural community(rural em jobs are better) and/or doing an em residency(em residents get better jobs) and/or teaching and/or overseas work. we'll see how the next few yrs go. gotta finish my global health doctorate first. I am about 1/3 of the way through with that. Is this true for all who do a residency (i.e., all specialties) or more specific to EM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardsgirl Posted October 24, 2012 Author Share Posted October 24, 2012 Ya that is true. ughhh so.much.debt! I would have to live on next to nothing for many years and put 80% of my take home pay towards loans. Yep, insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted October 24, 2012 Moderator Share Posted October 24, 2012 Is this true for all who do a residency (i.e., all specialties) or more specific to EM? all residencies. definitely anything hospital based. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lov2xlr8 Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I was under the impression that the LECOM bridge required you match for IM only, am I wrong? Really have never looked into it, just remember the comments around here back when it began. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted October 24, 2012 Moderator Share Posted October 24, 2012 I was under the impression that the LECOM bridge required you match for IM only, am I wrong? Really have never looked into it, just remember the comments around here back when it began. half the class has to commit to primary care before they start. those spots may be easier to get. the other 1/2 can do anything they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lov2xlr8 Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 got it, thanks for clarifying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
physasst Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Medicine? Not in it for the money... No one should ever do medicine for money.....not as a physician or anything. Physicians don't make real money, not really. A lot of my friends who have gone into business or finance run circles around most physicians as far as income. Hell, I had one ole buddy call me up the other day, wondering what is the hottest area to invest in, in medicine....I said proteogenomics, without a doubt. individualized medicine. He said thanks, and noted that a colleague was a venture capitalist who was looking to invest 100 million....I literally choked on my coffee as I thought about how much money that was.......He asked if I could put a business plan together to start a biotech firm......I replied that I was a researcher, and I could write research proposals, but not business plans....BUT, if he was looking for someone to run a Research Division for a biotech firm, and wanted to pay me a lot of money, I could be available.... I also remember the regional Ortho equipment distributor for a main Ortho implant company....The guy who owned the distributorship was a millionaire several times over. Had a 3 million dollar 7 bedroom cabin on one of the big lakes. Again, ran circles around any of the physicians in income. If income is your driver...go into business or better yet finance. Medical school????? For me the answer is...."you've gotta be out of your bleeping mind". I'm trying to GET OUT of patient care, not get farther into it. For me that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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