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School Rankings 2014?


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Anyone ever wondered how schools are ranked by the US News organization? I recently became very curious about this and did some minor investigation. It seems as though there must be a better methodology for providing such rankings as they can definitely present the wrong impression to students who are considering their options for places to attend, especially when you have over 150 schools to choose from. I found an article below that talks about a new ranking system, but I wonder if it has even been acknowledged by US News and I also wonder when US News is planning on ranking PA schools again? The last time was in 2010 for the 2011 rankings. Their website just says that other than the major graduate programs, they only rank other science degrees "periodically," which basically amounts to whenever the hell they want. 

 

http://shrp.rutgers.edu/dept/primary_care/paweb/documents/NovelRankingSystem.pdf

 

 

Just wanted to see others thoughts about this and if they think a reorganized ranking system should be implemented, and, if so, what factors should be included in the ranking? Who should be given the surveys?

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I also found these other rankings:

http://education-portal.com/top_physician_assistant_schools.html

http://www.collegeatlas.org/physician-assistant-college-rankings.html

 

This article talks about how programs are upset with the rankings not being scientific, but that students take them very seriously when considering their graduate education: 

http://nurse-practitioners-and-physician-assistants.advanceweb.com/article/ius-newsi-ranks-pa-programs.aspx

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Y'all are fools for even caring.  If you are ARC-PA approved thats all that matters.  EMEDPA is exactly correct, it is a popularity contest.  People should just really focus on what program fits you best.  If your reason for going to a good school is because it will help you get a job-- again youre a fool... thats what interviews are for.  

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Wow, aanghila, you clearly do not understand my motives. Being ARC-PA certified is what should matter. What I am concerned about is that unfortunately some students ARE basing their choices on these rankings. I never implied that this was how I chose my school. I completely agree that interviews aid in the decision making process of choosing a school, but again, it becomes difficult for students to choose a school based on ARC-PA certification, interviews, and PANCE scores, especially if you're choosing from several schools that are premier in all three. Also, no one ever suggested that they chose a higher ranked school to help them get a job - you made that assumption yourself. I don't appreciate your lack of understanding or name calling. My purpose for questioning these rankings is because they can lead the average pre-PA student in the wrong direction since most students base choosing which schools they apply to off of these rankings. I think students should not use these rankings to choose a program, but inevitably,  they will. I was simply asking to see if anyone had better ideas for how the rankings should be conducted in order to more accurately represent every program.  

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  • 2 weeks later...

@PAtoB, you seem to have applied to the same schools as me because I have noticed your posts. I live in Southeast Michigan. Personally, I would choose Wayne over EMU. I have heard only positive reports about Wayne. In my case, I probably will be applying again next cycle. I am 22 years old and graduated from U of M Ann Arbor this past May with a 3.8 GPA. However, my HCE hours are considered "less competitive". I will most likely spend the next year working on accumulating more competitive HCE. Best of luck to you with your decision. Hopefully, next year, I will be in your shoes.

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  • 1 month later...

Take it from a 3rd year PA student.

 

Disregard all the rankings and things like that.  Go somewhere where the clinical rotations are top notch.  While classroom lectures are important for foundation, you must remember, the studen'ts work ethic is the more significant in learning in the class room than the actual lecturers providing the information.

 

Here's some info on Rankings one the current top PA programs or Name schools in the country and their PANCE passing rates for 1st time:

Duke - 96%

George Washington - 97%

Yale - 97%

Cornell - 97%

Stanford - 92%

Baylor (last reported 2010) - 92%

 

Then you look at the less ranked unfamiliar names:

Quinnipiac - 100%

East Carolina - 100%

Mass College of Pharm Boston - 99%

Eastern Virginia - 98%

University of Florida - 98%

 

While I'm not degrading any program.  But Rankings mean nothing.  The top listed schools are all highly ranked or have prestigious names, while the bottom schools are further down the list.  I currently attend Mass College of Pharm in Boston. 

 

Though there has been bumps in the road, my rotations are top notch (I even scored a Cardiac Surgery at Brigham and Women's, one of the top places for cardiology in the country).  80% of our lectures were from Guest Instructors coming in from Harvard Med, Brigham and Women's, Mass General, and Tufts Medical School.  I hear Eastern Virginia and Florida integrate their PA students in with their Medical Students, so didactic, that's hard to beat.

 

Yet, I believe Duke does the same thing with their students and I still truly believe that the Duke students are very gifted and have great rotations with their own hospitals, however, my point being is Duke students are no better than Florida students or any of the other schools listed below.  They all took the same certification exam, and based on the rankings, the lower ranked schools competed or even ousted the higher ranks.

 

It's really about the rotations and the willingness of the preceptor to teach you, and the student.  Each school has their preference of student too.  Some look at grades, GRE, as a more important factor, others look at clinical experience.

 

My opinion, pick a school that coorelates to your strengths and your wants.

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  • 5 months later...

---""I hear Eastern Virginia and Florida integrate their PA students in with their Medical Students, so didactic, that's hard to beat."

-gillum003- I am not sure where you heard that Eastern Virginia Medical School's PA program integrates the PA and Medical students. This is not the case. As a recent grad from EVMS I can assure you, they do not. IMHO this is a positive attribute. The program has dedicated instructors, classrooms, labs... The faculty is made up of practicing PAs in the local area.

I agree with your point WRT the ranking system being a popularity contest. I don't understand why an applicant to a PA program would base their decision on the 'Brand name' of the university. The most important factor should be based on how the applicant feels about the program. In short every student should decide what the most important aspects of a PA program are to them.

Personally I chose EVMS based on the impression of the program the first time I went to campus. The director for admissions took the time to sit with me, review my transcripts and offer me advice on what I could do to increase my chances of being offered a seat. I. Also saw the 98% pass rate for first time PANCE takers as a major plus.

If I were to create a ranking system I would place the importance of that plus faculty to student ratio. I never felt cost of the program should bear high importance in ranking.

Just my 2 cents.. I just wanted to pass along the info about the integration not being the case.

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Florida doesn't really integrate didactics either. We are in the same building, taught by many of the same faculty, in many of the same integrative classes (stop smoking and team based seminars, three or four times), and work with them in the student community clinics, but we are taught in different classes. 

 

As for rankings, useful as a handy list of places to look at, but not something to put much faith in. I was told not to apply to some of the programs in the top 10 by multiple PA's in the local area who thought the students were weak in patient care. I would go to a site like this shortly after US News to try and tease out the truth. 

 

At the end of the day, it's about finding a school that will meet your educational needs and make you a good PA. As always, batteries are not included, some assembly is required, and your mileage may vary. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

I always feel like I have to take the PANCE pass rates with a grain of salt if I don't also see the attrition rate.  I'd rather go to a school where, say on average, out of 50 students, all take the PANCE and 48 pass; as opposed to a school where 15 people drop out, and all 35 that are left pass.

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Take it from a 3rd year PA student.

 

Disregard all the rankings and things like that.  Go somewhere where the clinical rotations are top notch.  While classroom lectures are important for foundation, you must remember, the studen'ts work ethic is the more significant in learning in the class room than the actual lecturers providing the information.

 

Here's some info on Rankings one the current top PA programs or Name schools in the country and their PANCE passing rates for 1st time:

Duke - 96%

George Washington - 97%

Yale - 97%

Cornell - 97%

Stanford - 92%

Baylor (last reported 2010) - 92%

 

Then you look at the less ranked unfamiliar names:

Quinnipiac - 100%

East Carolina - 100%

Mass College of Pharm Boston - 99%

Eastern Virginia - 98%

University of Florida - 98%

 

Sophie Davis - Harlem Hospital PA Program Last year, 100% passing rate at first try. This year 21 students took it first time and 100% passed. the remaining 7... 5 passed at first try, 1 failed, 1 still has not taken it.

 

 

 

Side bar:  the amount of drop out rate and amount of those actually taking the pance for the first time is major factor too for all these programs.

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I always feel like I have to take the PANCE pass rates with a grain of salt if I don't also see the attrition rate. I'd rather go to a school where, say on average, out of 50 students, all take the PANCE and 48 pass; as opposed to a school where 15 people drop out, and all 35 that are left pass.

This x100. I wish that the attrition rates were publicly available for all schools. PA schools can choose from hundreds of applicants for every seat, if more than a hand full of people are failing out, that school is doing something wrong

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  • 2 weeks later...

This is a great forum, everything you all are saying makes good sense.

 

I'd love to search for PA programs by these types of qualities, any tips? I've been doing a lot of research and thus far, have found it very difficult to search by much that is meaningful aside from the PANCE pass rate. Do you have any tips on how to research schools by some of these other things that matter? As Sirpaul said, when there are 150+ schools, it's difficult to find meaningful ways to sort through them. 

 

I haven't applied to any schools yet - I'm a career changer, and currently knee-deep in the preparation and research stage, working my way through pre-reqs and trying to figure out what programs I might apply to (which largely dictates the rest of the pre-reqs I need, so it's a circuitous process)! I'd love to search for schools that have good clinical rotations, educational cultures that fit my personality/interests, schools that look for students with my kinds of strengths, etc - but it's not so easy to tease this out from program websites and search engines. One resource I've liked so far is http://physician-assistant-ed.com - they have nice at-a-glance summaries of different programs (but still, not much that helps discern the overall character of programs).

 

Another thing a friend in PA school mentioned to me was to look for a school with a supportive culture and a focus on mentorship and stress management. Her school assigned all 1st year students "big siblings" in 2nd year, and it is apparently tremendously helpful for students as they progress through the program. (btw, I looked on that school's website and couldn't find a single mention of this mentoring program - I wish I could search for schools with programs like that! I'd love to find a website that publishes student and alum reviews of their PA programs, but I have yet to find such a thing.)

 

Thanks again for this thread. What's posted above is already helpful!

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This is a great forum, everything you all are saying makes good sense.

 

I'd love to search for PA programs by these types of qualities, any tips? I've been doing a lot of research and thus far, have found it very difficult to search by much that is meaningful aside from the PANCE pass rate. Do you have any tips on how to research schools by some of these other things that matter? As Sirpaul said, when there are 150+ schools, it's difficult to find meaningful ways to sort through them.

 

I haven't applied to any schools yet - I'm a career changer, and currently knee-deep in the preparation and research stage, working my way through pre-reqs and trying to figure out what programs I might apply to (which largely dictates the rest of the pre-reqs I need, so it's a circuitous process)! I'd love to search for schools that have good clinical rotations, educational cultures that fit my personality/interests, schools that look for students with my kinds of strengths, etc - but it's not so easy to tease this out from program websites and search engines. One resource I've liked so far is http://physician-assistant-ed.com - they have nice at-a-glance summaries of different programs (but still, not much that helps discern the overall character of programs).

 

Another thing a friend in PA school mentioned to me was to look for a school with a supportive culture and a focus on mentorship and stress management. Her school assigned all 1st year students "big siblings" in 2nd year, and it is apparently tremendously helpful for students as they progress through the program. (btw, I looked on that school's website and couldn't find a single mention of this mentoring program - I wish I could search for schools with programs like that! I'd love to find a website that publishes student and alum reviews of their PA programs, but I have yet to find such a thing.)

You aren't going to be able to search schools by "soft" qualities like good clinical rotations, educational cultures that fit your personality or interest, or schools that look for students with your kinds of strengths. First, those things are a matter of some judgement and opinion. Second, schools don't like to publish too much information that might pigeon hole them. Presumably, you could use the PA schools section of this forum to learn more about each school but it doesn't take long to find out that second and third year students just don't post much in the way of helpful, objective information. They may be too busy or they may fear being criticized or reprimanded, but it just isn't there.

 

Bottom line is that you need to just do the work. Thoroughly review each school's website; go to their information sessions and try to find some second or third years that will talk to you. You could call admin and see if they could get a second or third year to call you, but I don't have much faith in that approach for obvious reasons.

 

As for "big siblings", that seems a bit over the top for a professional school. It sounds like spoon feeding. Once you are in a program, you need to start networking with your classmates. Form study groups and develop a social network, etc. "Big siblings" sounds pretty high-school, at least to me. When do we actually grow up? Sorry if that sounds harsh but the things I would care about are location, cost, reputation, PANCE pass rate, housing availability and quality of professors, facilities, and, mostly, clinical rotations. The rest is just fluff.

 

Sent from my Kindle Fire HDX using Tapatalk 2

 

 

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  • 5 months later...

Anyone ever wondered how schools are ranked by the US News organization? I recently became very curious about this and did some minor investigation. It seems as though there must be a better methodology for providing such rankings as they can definitely present the wrong impression to students who are considering their options for places to attend, especially when you have over 150 schools to choose from. I found an article below that talks about a new ranking system, but I wonder if it has even been acknowledged by US News and I also wonder when US News is planning on ranking PA schools again? The last time was in 2010 for the 2011 rankings. Their website just says that other than the major graduate programs, they only rank other science degrees "periodically," which basically amounts to whenever the hell they want. 

 

http://shrp.rutgers.edu/dept/primary_care/paweb/documents/NovelRankingSystem.pdf

 

 

Just wanted to see others thoughts about this and if they think a reorganized ranking system should be implemented, and, if so, what factors should be included in the ranking? Who should be given the surveys?

Check out this one instead:

 

It was a good read and actually has a methodology supporting their ranking system and compares it with the US News rankings.

 

J Physician Assist Educ. 2010;21(4):30-6.

A novel approach to ranking physician assistant programs.

Van Rhee J1, Davanzo MJ.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.paeaonline.org%2Findex.php%3Fht%3Daction%2FGetDocumentAction%2Fi%2F118967&ei=cKe0VOv-MIHXoAS15YJg&usg=AFQjCNHzgrMVbA9ti5-tMAEFWR5axlrf1g&sig2=3B_0CFioTt_jkHq5Y48ZJQ&bvm=bv.83339334,d.cGU

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  • 1 month later...
  • Moderator

Here is a new article I wrote about this topic published by the PA Student Essentials blog! Thank you everyone for contributing to this conversation! 

 

http://www.pastudentessentials.com/leveling-playing-field/

nice job Paul. One thing to add to your site. The residency list for EM residencies in the EM forum here is the most complete out there as it includes appap and non-appap programs , as well as all those on the sempa list, + a few others. Might want to link to it. It is a sticky at the top of the em forum.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Take it from a 3rd year PA student.

 

Disregard all the rankings and things like that.  Go somewhere where the clinical rotations are top notch.  While classroom lectures are important for foundation, you must remember, the studen'ts work ethic is the more significant in learning in the class room than the actual lecturers providing the information.

 

Here's some info on Rankings one the current top PA programs or Name schools in the country and their PANCE passing rates for 1st time:

Duke - 96%

George Washington - 97%

Yale - 97%

Cornell - 97%

Stanford - 92%

Baylor (last reported 2010) - 92%

 

Then you look at the less ranked unfamiliar names:

Quinnipiac - 100%

East Carolina - 100%

Mass College of Pharm Boston - 99%

Eastern Virginia - 98%

University of Florida - 98%

 

While I'm not degrading any program.  But Rankings mean nothing.  The top listed schools are all highly ranked or have prestigious names, while the bottom schools are further down the list.  I currently attend Mass College of Pharm in Boston. 

 

Though there has been bumps in the road, my rotations are top notch (I even scored a Cardiac Surgery at Brigham and Women's, one of the top places for cardiology in the country).  80% of our lectures were from Guest Instructors coming in from Harvard Med, Brigham and Women's, Mass General, and Tufts Medical School.  I hear Eastern Virginia and Florida integrate their PA students in with their Medical Students, so didactic, that's hard to beat.

 

Yet, I believe Duke does the same thing with their students and I still truly believe that the Duke students are very gifted and have great rotations with their own hospitals, however, my point being is Duke students are no better than Florida students or any of the other schools listed below.  They all took the same certification exam, and based on the rankings, the lower ranked schools competed or even ousted the higher ranks.

 

It's really about the rotations and the willingness of the preceptor to teach you, and the student.  Each school has their preference of student too.  Some look at grades, GRE, as a more important factor, others look at clinical experience.

 

My opinion, pick a school that coorelates to your strengths and your wants.

Is EVMS really Unfamiliar??

   I live in the area and EVMS has a pretty strong reputation in the community.

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